SPEARHEAD!!!

The spearhead formations are out! Though the rules aren't yet...These things are very interesting. They're like cheap apocalypse formations and they make things like your transports (assuming they have the tank rule) a lot more interesting.

The Monstrous Spearhead is a little scary though...You need to login to the Games Workshop site to download it.

Wow...Daemon-gasm!

This guy is supposed to be plastic!

I feel like I need to just re-do my daemon prince now...


The Karios and Changeling model make me waaaay happy, so does the Daemon Prince. Where's the Nurgle love?

The second wave of daemons is finally coming!!!

For those of you who don't get the GW newletter:

"A host of incredible new Citadel miniatures for both Warhammer 40,000 Chaos Daemons armies and Warhammer Daemons of Chaos armies will soon be released upon mortal battlefields. All will be revealed in July here on the Games Workshop website and in August's issue of White Dwarf magazine, so keep an eye out for more information."

This is terribly exciting news. A year ago (and more) the second wave was supposed to include the plastic daemon prince, plastic Seekers (mounted daemonettes), and more of the special characters. The real debate was always plastic plaguebearers, horrors, and a generic herald set. /excited!

Chaos vs Loyalists (specifically Blood Angels)

This is a HUGE wall of text. I apologize, but try to bear with me. It might be one to save for when you've got a minute...

I might edit this later with links and better headings and maybe even break it up...It just sort of happened.

I was bored at work today, and I started debating a loyalist Flesh Reaper chapter. I tooled around with a bunch of different ideas, ultimately deciding I wanted lots and lots of Lightning Claws, because, hey, they're awesome. I would have tried a Raven Guard derivative, but my roommate already has his own Raven Guard force so...it'd be a bit boring :(

Anyway...After a while of indecisiveness, I thought I'd try to simply recreate the same units I had in the Flesh Reaper warband. It was surprisingly easy (Death Company are very similar to Plague Marines), and a little frustrating. I'm a little bit touchy about the raptors and bikes being over priced in CSM, among other things. Mostly because of some pretty epic arguments with my roommate about it. He claims that the increase is fair due to the access to marks. I hold the cost of the marks is in...well in buying the mark! I can understand the "You have to take the whole army into context." idea, but with loyalist vs traitor marines....well it sort of a special case I think.

I'm going to do this specifically from the Blood Angels' codex, because that's the list I have in front of me.

Raptors vs Assault Squad:
(Unit of 7 with a Champion, Power Weapon, and 2 Meltaguns)
CSM: 190
BA: 171
Difference: 19

Differences: 
CSM: +1LD
BA: Scoring, Rolls 1D6 scatter (instead of 2D6), re-rolls failed reserve rolls if entering via deep strike, ATSKNF, Combat Squads (kind of irrelevant for this unit of 7), and The Red Thirst
Conclusion: I really think this one is just unfair...Not in the the BAs are OP sense, so much as I think Raptors just got hosed.

Bikes
(Unit of 7 with a Champion, Power Fist, and 2 Flamers)
CSM: 281
BA: 225
Difference: 56

Differences:
CSM: +1LD, Close Combat Weapon (which two are trading in for the flamer)
BA: ATSKNF, Combat Squads, The Red Thirst
Conclusion: This one is a little close to fair, just for the extra attacks, but 56 points is a LOT for 5 extra attacks...especially taking the potential Red Thirst giving Furious Charge and the high likely hood of Sanguinary Priests bestowing Furious Charge on....everyone. (Intentionally ignoring Feel No Pain)

Plague Marines vs Death Company
(This one is not nearly as cut and dry, but still close)
(Unit of 7, Plague Marines have 2x Plasma Gun, Death Company have 2x Power Weapon. Same upgrade Cost)
CSM:191
BA: 155
Difference: 36


Differences:
CSM: Scoring, +1LD, Defensive Grenades, Bolter, access to better ranged weaponry (Meltaguns and Plasma Guns)
BA: Rage, Furious Charge, Relentless, access to better close combat weaponry and jump packs (Intentionally ignoring Lemartes)
Conclusion: Like I said, this one is less cut and dry. The Rage issue is pretty easily solved by a Rhino (which I took in both of my lists), but it's still a disadvantage. Really I think these two fill different roles. The Plague Marine is more of a ranged fighter that can handle close combat. The Death Company is a pretty hardcore assault unit. I do feel like their offensive capability increase is much greater than the Plague Marine defensive increase. They both have a 3+ FNP save, grenades and 2 better guns don't beat Furious Charge. Access to Jump Packs....well how do you feel about a Jump Infantry, Power Weapon squad Furious Charging down your throat with FNP?


Reiteration: They're harder to compare, and their is more opinion involved.


Rhinos
(Just a single Rhino for Plague Marines or Death Company, no jump packs)
(CSM w/Extra Armour, BA w/nothing)
CSM: 50
BA: 50
Difference: 0

Differences:
CSM: Extra Armour, TL-Bolter
BA: Fast, Storm Bolter
Conclusion: I'm going to ignore the bolter difference, because you don't buy a Rhino to shoot with anyway and they're each superior in different circumstances. I bought extra armour on my Rhinos to ensure they can always move towards their destination. Fast does that so much better...Really, I can see the argument for each, because if your Rhino gets hit and can't move, it doesn't matter how fast it is. Fast with extra armour...talk about reliability.


I can see the argument for similarity, but I feel like fast is superior in this instance.

The rest of the army is HQ choices and those are terribly difficult to compare. The short version is Daemon Prince + Sorcerer = 305 (remember, these are all without Mark of Nurgle) vs Captain Tycho + Librarian with a jump pack = 300. I really feel like these are pretty even, in cost and gaming terms, with a slight advantage to Captain Tycho over the Daemon Prince. Tycho can be insta-deathed, but he has a better war save, can join units, and...more. I attribute this to his being a special character. He simply has unique rules, and they're good ones.

So my question: Counts as Blood Angels, or Chaos Space Marines? I would use the same models for both, 1850 points.

CSM vs BA
(This is already a book, so the Lists are at the bottom of the post.)
CSM: 1849(-1)
BA: 1482(-386*)
(*Note: If I allow for the cost of all of the Marks of Nurgle in the BA army, it is still at -196, 195 points cheaper than the CSM army)

So that format is a little weird...but I kind of like it. I think it will work better for the BA list, because it's complicated in terms of which unit is made up of what...


I know the Blood Angels lists kind of lack scoring units, and that might be something I need to fix.

 Appendix A: CSM Flesh Reapers

Chaos Space Marine (1849pts)

• HQ (175pts)
•  Daemon Prince
• Mark of Nurgle
• Wings
• Warptime
• HQ + Fast Attack (380pts)
• Chaos Sorcerer
• Mark of Nurgle
• Jump Pack
• Wind of Chaos
• Melta Bombs
• 6 Raptors
• Mark of Nurgle
• Champion w/Power Weapon
• 2x Meltaguns
• Fast Attack (240pts)
• 7 Raptors
• Mark of Nurgle
• Champion w/Power Weapon
• 2x Meltaguns
• Fast Attack (331)
• 7 Bikers
• Mark of Nurgle
• Champion w/Powerfist
• 2x Flamers
• Troops x2 (482)
• 7 Plague Marines
• 2x Plasma Guns
• Rhino
• Extra Armour
• Troops (226)
• 7 Plague Marines
• 2x Plasma Guns
• Rhino

Total: 1849 points

  Appendix B:The Blood Angels Comparison List

Blood Angels (1464*) - The Comparison List
(Note* - 1654 if you're allowing for Mark of Nurgle)

• HQ (175pts)
• Captain Tycho
• HQ + Troops (278pts)
• Librarian
• Unleash Rage
• Smite
• Jump Pack
• 6 Assault Marines
• Sergeant w/Power Weapon
• 2x Meltaguns
• Fast Attack (225pts)
• 7 Bikes
• Sergeant w/Power Fist
• 2x Flamers
• Troops x3 (615pts)
• 7 Death Company
• 2x Power Weapons
• Rhino

Total: 1464 points

 Appendix C: Blood Angels Flesh Reapers I would play

Blood Angels (1850)

• HQ (290pts)
• Captain Tycho
• Honour Guard
• HQ + Troops + Elite/3** (350pts)
• Librarian
• Unleash Rage
• Smite
• Jump Pack
• Sanguinary Priest
• Power Sword
• Jump Pack
• 5 Assault Marines
• Sergeant w/Power Weapon
• 2x Meltaguns
•  Fast Attack + Elite/3**(305)
• Sanguinary Priest
• Power Sword
• Jump Pack
• Melta Bombs
• 6 Bikes
• Sergeant
• Powerfist
• 2x Flamers
• Troops + Elite/3**(243)
• Sanguinary Priest
• Power Sword
• Jump Pack
• 6 Assault Marines
• Sergeant w/Power Weapon
• 2x Meltaguns
• Troops x2 (442)
• 7 Death Company
• 2x Power Weapons
• Rhino
• Extra Armour
• Searchlight
• Troops (220)
• 7 Death Company
• 2x Power Weapon
• Rhino
• Extra Armour

Total: 1850
(*Note: This unit is entirely for to give Tycho some meat. Instant death is bad.)
(**Note: Sanguinary Priests can be taken 1-3 per Elite slot)